CONTAX CLUB Carl Zeiss 討論區

請問有無c兄用過HasselBlad lens用在 135相機 (e.g. dslr). 小弟原本有興趣買dslr定焦lens, 一系買同一個system, 一系買副廠lens, 完全無計劃過買120 lens用在 135相機. 但係有c兄推介我玩HasselBlad lens (80mm)作一個test, 用過之後一定話正(你會feel到color,同層次感會好有分別), 會完全中毒. 而且個d nikon, canon d定焦lens, 你會give up.

其實, 小弟在此方面沒有認識,可否講解多d呢?

I suppose you have to compare individual lens against indiuvidual ones for the matter. Personally I have used many different lens and I can detest to the fact that there are equally good Nikkor or EF fix focas and when employed properly, produce equally good result from the lens as using a Hassy Lens.

Admittingly it is not possible to generalize, Besides, if one is using digital, unless one care to learn the art of using RAW and all its associated techniques. Otherwise I must say much is lost between the capturing and the in camera JPEG conversion already ... !!

When one talk about Color and Depth / rendering, there is several different school of thought. One is the richness of color as in rendering ( Saturation and Hue ) People tend to favor this approach as detested by those who like to shoot Velvia. Then there's the school of accuracy and tonality ( Widest possible graduation and push for color info deep into the shadow and highlight area, tend to feel low contrast ), and many more variation of such in between.

If one use a medium format lens on a 35mm film capture, the lens is only used for its center most portion which really mean most are well corretced. So its pretty much a matter of choosing which lens perform ( to your own personal liking ) This does not automatically made the Hassy / Zeiss lens better. People in need of accutance and resolution would benefit from using better old school style Nikkor as they are known to perform well on such account. Likewise, if Flat color respense ( good for post processing and wet darkroom work as they present the least hue and tone shift ) is required, Canon EF lens are actually quite well regarded.

So in the end if it is really good for the purpose is a personal and subjective choice, not an objective and definite ones. For one thing there are enough of quality Nikkor and EF that can out do Hasy/ Zeiss , just do not blindly belive in brand myth.

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Thanks a lot for your advice.

Actually, I agree with your opinion of "If one use a medium format lens on a 35mm film capture, the lens is only used for its center most portion which really mean most are well corretced. So its pretty much a matter of choosing which lens perform ( to your own personal liking )" . In addition, my original idea is to buy 135 manual lens. However, somebody suggests me try to use Hasselblad 80mm manual lens because the cost is not relatively high compare w/ other manual lens. It is good to have a try and if the outcome is not good. I can sell the lens out and the loss is not too much.

So that why I wanna to know more. In addition, I think I'm not a brand believer that have a bias of such well known brand names. But frankly speaking, the skill set of such companies are really good. Of course, I can't apply to the whole series of product.

Finally, I have taken a look the output of using 120 lens for 135 camera. I can say the feeling is totally different that I wanna to know more information about this.

Let me post the link to let you have a look first.

http://www.cameraunion.net/forum/showth ... adid=17868

FOA, let me reiterate my point, I am saying is you will get different result from different lens, and that 6X6 Hassyy lens do not neccessary better or worse than 35mm specific lens. One must use both ( or whatever number ) of them, and get to know them for their specifics before making a decision whether one is better employed for certain photogrphic need at occassions.

That is purely subjective in most cases

However, using Medium format lens and 35mm specific lens. One can surely expect a difference as the lens are really designed to be used on different criterias. 35mm specific lens of portrait focal length ( rought 80 to 135 ) are lens that do not need to cover as wide and having enough offset from the flange rim that they do not need any specific fopcus shift in the design to facilitate the fore and rear foci while 6X6 lens typically of this focal length means a certain compression of the focus management ( as needed because they need to cover wider and more flange depth )

The key optical performance difference between them is 35mm lens need to produce higher accutance and higher absolute resolution, while 6X6 Lens are designed to cover wider ( thus its center image are far more corrected in principle over the entire 35mm frame as against the 35mm specific lens ) the aftmentioned better depth is simply a by-product of people seeing more abbration produced by the fridge of the 6x6 lens. In absolute optical performance term, its actually worse. Whether its pleasing to the photographer is subjective. Know that while 6X6 lens tend to give this more pleasing render / smooth blend. Its price to pay is lost of definition. A more poping 3D render is another way of saying the definition falls off in abrupt manner.

So whether one is better than the others is a matter of how one judge the image elements and how one wanted it. Do remember though, 85mm or longer focal length 35mm specific lens are usually faster and thus allow an extra control over the rendering by using the aperture.

Personally I have myself use many 80/85/100/135 lens ( they tend to be my favourate ) and for me, the 6X6 lens do not neccessary made best. I have found using a 35mm specific 100mm lens far more manageble and also produce even better rendering. Knwo that focal length of this range had only minimal amount of difference in coverage. A 85mm in protrait covers 16.07 degree while a 100mm covers 13.69, not enough of a difference to concern in usage but enough of a focal length to made rendering different. And even 135 is not that different. So before making judgemetn on using a 35mm or 6x6 lens. do also get to know the neighbours ( in focal length )

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You're absolute right. For me, I do have many questions about the 120 lens use in 135 camera. Frankly speaking, it's a subjective feeling and no definite answer.

I do believer there are not many guys uses the 120 lens in 135 camera. And then I really don't know 120 camera, I'm still in 135 tier and need to learn more. However, some one tells me about 120 lens and then the photos are really amazing. So that I wanna to know more, only listen to one way opinion, I'm very worry about it. So that I post a topic here and wanna to get more advice or information.

In addition, your analyze is really good that I can clear define what I really want and the strength of 120 and 135.

Finally, do you know that any HK ppl use 120 lens to 135 camera? For me, I only wanna to know it and no any hidden agenda.

為何不用120機身而要用135機身,不是有點多餘嗎?

eej,

You also have your point.

For me, I change from my 135 film to DSLR around 3 years. Actually, digital has its advantages. I can say it's difficult to discuss who is better. But in my point of view, DSLR fits my needs. As an novice user, it's very often to use zoom lens which can apply for generic use. However, I believe all wanna to upgrade the equipment or improve the skill to enjoy the photography.

Then, I'm now planning the manual lens. But sb tells me you can think hasselblad 120 lens that you no need limit your choice. So that y I post a topic here.

But my current plan should not use 120 camera that I can say I'm not ready to upgrade to this tier.

Finally, I feel so sorry to ask you all so many stupid questions. Frankly speaking, I should not post here that I'm not this types of users.

Assuming you really want to make your choice right in the first place...(ie if trial and error loses nothing to you, you might save some troubles in making a well considered and informed choice IMHO)

I suggest you get intoxicated by looking at the actual stuff produced by hasselblad, canon OR nikon lenses with your DSLR first.

Only when you really subjectively conclude that a particular one lens (not brand) is better you then proceed to prove it against objective parameters, eg:

1. AF availability (I suspect you won't bother)
2. Price (eg cost implications when you change your DSLR which is not compatible with, say, a hasselblad lens without investing in new adaptor(s))
3. Weight
4. Is your chosen lens really better in terms of a set of (more or less) objective parameters (eg chromatic/spherical abberations, optical distortion, field curvature of the "in-focus" field, relative illuminance...etcetc)

sorry. 沒有惡意的.

I have tried using Hasselblad 100MP fitted on my Canon 20D. My point of view is:

1. I cannot tell the difference between CF100MP and CY100MP.

2. It was not easy to use, due to the aperture ring of Hasselblad lenses are designed for right hand but my right hand must stick onto the 135 format camera shutter. (we use left hand to fire on Hasselblad)

3. having the apdater mounted between the lense and camera, the size is quite inconvenience to carry around with only shooting in such facol range.

4. Standard lens 80mm is not the standard range in 135 format, where we usually consider 35-50mm as standard range. So if one wants such range below 80mm, the lenses are usually much more expensive.

5. It was fun in the first time having the Hasselblad optical image processed by CCD/CMOS, when buying a "proper" digital back is still a dream of mine.

我唔係咁既意思. 因為本人又無 hassel equipment, 而且又問一d唔係正常既問題. 所以你地比d咁有用既意見是十分好.


總的來說, 點解會有咁既lum法. 因本人想玩下定焦. 有人用於好意介紹我用hasselblad 120 lens
- d色水、層次同d 日本lens有分別;
- 80mm- 因為最便宜 (100mm or 60mm, 貴很多. 因本人未玩過 120或全 manual 機), 所以佢話小小本玩下la. 唔喜歡,投資都好小, even sell out都唔會loss好多;
- 如好玩, 好投資玩120機 la

當然, d色水、層次好吸引我. 但係我都有d hestitation, 如 120用135camera 操作上會點, 80mm = 120mm（nikon dslr), 影人就無咁好...... 所以post出來問大家lor.

其實, 我like hassel d色水、層次. 如果用135 Zeiss lens(相信 compatable好多), 效果會否我之前post條大陸link咁好 r. 因本人只係用過canon, nikon機、lens. 所以請教大家

I would say if you intended to buy 120 format system, this is worth to get a adopter to connect your hasselblad lens to your digital body.

However, if you only want to put CZ lens to digital body, I think most of Contax lens can do this job already...

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事務局長

Damn, my Calon Segur heart fall in love with Haut Brion

Thanks a lot. Currently, I don't have any idea to buy 120 system even I know the cost is not relatively high comparing with previous.

I wanna to improve my skill in 135 system first. Anyways, you all give me valuable advice that I'd like to thank all of you.

spleung, 你所講o既 135 係指 full frame 機定係 1.6x o既 dslr?

我自己咁睇, 唔知o岩唔o岩: 其實 120 所擁有o既立體感同佢o既片幅有關, 大 d o既片幅, o係同 1 支鏡及同 1 個構圖之下o既景深會淺 d (因為 135 比 120 要行遠多少少), 所以中焦o既 object 相對會立體 d.
所以同 1 支鏡同 1 個構圖計, 你用 135 影o既相 1 定比唔上你用 120 咁好, 更遑論用 1.6x o既 dslr.
至於鏡頭不過係影響色調, 變形, 等等 ... 呢 d o野 CY zeiss 都俾到你

同埋 hass o既鏡本身已經難用, 轉落 135 就更難操作, 落晒腳影人影 studio 還可以, 要拎出街用似乎唔係幾實際.

不過調轉睇, 依家開始儲 hass, 等多幾年玩 digital back, o岩o岩好