CONTAX CLUB Carl Zeiss 討論區

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文章發表於 : 週六 16 7月 05 21:52:35 
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註冊時間: 週二 15 6月 04 22:46:47
文章: 419
I heard many times that the black ones are better than the chrome one. What does the word "better" really mean?

optical performance?
appearance?
market value?
else?

thanks for your sharing


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文章發表於 : 週三 20 7月 05 21:36:57 
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註冊時間: 週二 21 6月 05 14:23:10
文章: 57
you know, I have both lenses you mentioned above (35/4). But I think the chrome one is better than black one, especially on the macro.


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文章發表於 : 週三 20 7月 05 23:20:51 
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註冊時間: 週六 08 11月 03 07:56:21
文章: 5762
Firstly I should declare that I am a big fan for the chrome lenses!

For chrome 50/2 and 35/4, they are having a closer minimum focusing distance then the blitz black one........

The damping feeling for the focusing barrel of the chrome lenses are also generally better than the black lenses from the Contarex lenses I do own now..........

Generally I do feel that the chrome lens feels more solid with better craftmanship than the black lenses, especially when compare with the later production with serial no. greater than Nr. 45xxxxx something..............you can see the downgraded engravings on the lens barrel as compared with the early chrome lenses. The material for the lens barrel on the black lenses are just plain flat black anodized aluminium, while the chrome lenses are beautifully finished with very fine and even "凹凸" pattern to improve its hand feeling rather than a plain surface :twisted:

The myth of black lenses to be better than chrome lenses, personally I do realize that it is a matter of coating changes leading to the difference in colour rendering characteristics, just like "White Face" Rolleiflex 2.8F comparing with the earlier version. I got on my hand two Planar 50/2 with serial no. 237xxxx and 480xxx, one can easily distinguish them from their "golden" coating to the "purple golden" coating (just as the coating changes on the Planar 80/2.8 on the 2.8F), which gives a slightly higher contrast and saturation to the photo which appears to be more attractive to the eyes for most people.........

Personally I suppose we should rely on the serial no. rather than just black or chrome lenses for identifying the "characteristic" of certain Carl Zeiss lenses for Contarex (may be for Hasselblad as well :o ). I had closely examined my chrome Distagon 25/2.8 (with serial no. 356xxxx) with another black lenses with serial no. 397xxxx and actually I do not able to find any difference even for the coating colours, as a counter case to the Planar 50/2 as mentioned above. In my own opinion, chrome lenses with serial no. around 35xxxx should be the best to get (with serial no. ususally started with 36xxxxx), in which they are having the craftmanship of the "chrome lenses", while with the characteristic very much like the "black lenses", and most importantly, priced like chrome lenses :twisted:

Reference Material -

Contaxflex and Contarex, Hans-Jurgen Kuc
ZEISS Compendium, Charles M. Barringer and Marc James Small

P.S. Here is another very special example from ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7532352363&category=707&rd=1

This black Distagon 25/2.8 is having a serial no. 258xxxx, in which the initial 258 may refer to as a prototype lens :shock: (with reference from Hasselblad Compendium, Richard Nordin, Page 274)

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Wah
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www.flickr.com/dicksonlau


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文章發表於 : 週三 20 7月 05 23:23:49 
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註冊時間: 週日 09 11月 03 00:27:03
文章: 2502
Wah 少,我枝D25都係356XXXX呀 8)

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文章發表於 : 週三 20 7月 05 23:28:50 
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註冊時間: 週六 08 11月 03 07:56:21
文章: 5762
Henry 寫:
Wah 少,我枝D25都係356XXXX呀 8)


This is the only batch for chrome 25/2.8...............for black lenses there are several batched with initial 39, 51 and 56 :twisted:

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Wah
理事 - Board of Members
www.flickr.com/dicksonlau


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文章發表於 : 週三 20 7月 05 23:29:54 
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註冊時間: 週日 09 11月 03 00:27:03
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wah 寫:
Henry 寫:
Wah 少,我枝D25都係356XXXX呀 8)


This is the only batch for chrome 25/2.8...............for black lenses there are several batched with initial 39, 51 and 56 :twisted:


The prototype one u recommended looks appealing... :oops:

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文章發表於 : 週四 21 7月 05 11:30:49 
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註冊時間: 週二 15 6月 04 22:46:47
文章: 419
really thank wah for your detail analysis

i think your point about coating is probably right. Unlike C/Y lenses of different ages which have several variable claimed to be affecting performance (eg place of manufacturing, glasses used, coating...etc), I guess there were so many variable for Contarex line and hence coatings' changes affect Contarex lenses most.

By the way, the price of Contarex lenses in general are much lower than C/Y ones. (eg S85/2.0 is around 4000-5000) I hope the demand for C/Y will plunge in near future so that I can buy them in the price range of the current lsited Contarex ones, as i did some time ago. Otherwise I would seriously consider the Contarex...

By the way, I found a page which may be of some interest to Contarex fans at http://www.zeisscamera.com/First.html


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文章發表於 : 週四 21 7月 05 12:29:34 
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註冊時間: 週六 08 11月 03 01:36:09
文章: 8818
好精彩的分享,齋睇樺叔的論文已經係種享受 8) 8)


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文章發表於 : 週四 21 7月 05 14:52:36 
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註冊時間: 週六 08 11月 03 07:56:21
文章: 5762
him 寫:
really thank wah for your detail analysis

i think your point about coating is probably right. Unlike C/Y lenses of different ages which have several variable claimed to be affecting performance (eg place of manufacturing, glasses used, coating...etc), I guess there were so many variable for Contarex line and hence coatings' changes affect Contarex lenses most.

By the way, the price of Contarex lenses in general are much lower than C/Y ones. (eg S85/2.0 is around 4000-5000) I hope the demand for C/Y will plunge in near future so that I can buy them in the price range of the current lsited Contarex ones, as i did some time ago. Otherwise I would seriously consider the Contarex...

By the way, I found a page which may be of some interest to Contarex fans at http://www.zeisscamera.com/First.html


Actually if one can accept the operation and reliability of the Contarex body...............I would suggest the Contarex system rather than the C/Y system just for its lenses..........

Especially when you compare the Distagon 18/4 and 25/2.8 of Contarex one against those of C/Y :twisted: :twisted:

or just keep the C/Y system with the top of the cream, such as 35-135, 70-210, 21/2.8, 35/1.4, 55/1.2, 85/1.2, 100/2.8, 135/2, 200/2 or so :wink:

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Wah
理事 - Board of Members
www.flickr.com/dicksonlau


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文章發表於 : 週四 21 7月 05 20:19:45 
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註冊時間: 週日 09 11月 03 00:26:48
文章: 6252
來自: Hong Kong
如果 Cosina 肯出個 Contarex mount 機身連內置測光,即刻開行油黎玩!!

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文章發表於 : 週五 22 7月 05 14:42:20 
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註冊時間: 週四 27 11月 03 02:15:48
文章: 3194
來自: Moon Base Alpha
Clifford 寫:
如果 Cosina 肯出個 Contarex mount 機身連內置測光,即刻開行油黎玩!!


In theory possible, but if I am Cosina, I definitely would not do it. The Bessaflex is based on M42 which is not considered anywhere being the most prestige mount but its choosen for its wide market penmetration and absolute universal application.

If I were to product manage for Cosina, and looking for the next SLR mount to get my hand on. It will be the Exakta :wink:

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文章發表於 : 週五 22 7月 05 19:48:34 
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註冊時間: 週六 08 11月 03 01:36:09
文章: 8818
Consina 肯出 P-Six Mount 就真係發太達 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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文章發表於 : 週五 22 7月 05 22:15:28 
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註冊時間: 週二 15 6月 04 22:46:47
文章: 419
wah 寫:
Firstly I should declare that I am a big fan for the chrome lenses!

For chrome 50/2 and 35/4, they are having a closer minimum focusing distance then the blitz black one........

The damping feeling for the focusing barrel of the chrome lenses are also generally better than the black lenses from the Contarex lenses I do own now..........

Generally I do feel that the chrome lens feels more solid with better craftmanship than the black lenses, especially when compare with the later production with serial no. greater than Nr. 45xxxxx something..............you can see the downgraded engravings on the lens barrel as compared with the early chrome lenses. The material for the lens barrel on the black lenses are just plain flat black anodized aluminium, while the chrome lenses are beautifully finished with very fine and even "凹凸" pattern to improve its hand feeling rather than a plain surface :twisted:

The myth of black lenses to be better than chrome lenses, personally I do realize that it is a matter of coating changes leading to the difference in colour rendering characteristics, just like "White Face" Rolleiflex 2.8F comparing with the earlier version. I got on my hand two Planar 50/2 with serial no. 237xxxx and 480xxx, one can easily distinguish them from their "golden" coating to the "purple golden" coating (just as the coating changes on the Planar 80/2.8 on the 2.8F), which gives a slightly higher contrast and saturation to the photo which appears to be more attractive to the eyes for most people.........

Personally I suppose we should rely on the serial no. rather than just black or chrome lenses for identifying the "characteristic" of certain Carl Zeiss lenses for Contarex (may be for Hasselblad as well :o ). I had closely examined my chrome Distagon 25/2.8 (with serial no. 356xxxx) with another black lenses with serial no. 397xxxx and actually I do not able to find any difference even for the coating colours, as a counter case to the Planar 50/2 as mentioned above. In my own opinion, chrome lenses with serial no. around 35xxxx should be the best to get (with serial no. ususally started with 36xxxxx), in which they are having the craftmanship of the "chrome lenses", while with the characteristic very much like the "black lenses", and most importantly, priced like chrome lenses :twisted:

Reference Material -

Contaxflex and Contarex, Hans-Jurgen Kuc
ZEISS Compendium, Charles M. Barringer and Marc James Small

P.S. Here is another very special example from ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7532352363&category=707&rd=1

This black Distagon 25/2.8 is having a serial no. 258xxxx, in which the initial 258 may refer to as a prototype lens :shock: (with reference from Hasselblad Compendium, Richard Nordin, Page 274)


I had a look at the book about Zeiss between 1940-72 (?) and I saw the D15/3,5. Its serial number begins with 259xxxx and coincide with what wah said about prototype lens!


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