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 文章主題 : RZ67 ProII & Pentax 67II
文章發表於 : 週日 17 7月 05 20:24:25 
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註冊時間: 週三 16 2月 05 01:25:10
文章: 500
來自: matrix
映景又希望將來用到數碼背,就應該選rz?

但pentax真係方便易用好多。

唔該俾下意見。

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相機有一籮,靚相無幾張,唉!

I love Contax, I love people who love Contax and I love people who love Contax and use them to take great pictures.


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文章發表於 : 週一 18 7月 05 01:04:16 
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註冊時間: 週六 08 11月 03 01:36:09
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67 Full frame 數碼背 ? 要等到幾時先有 ?


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文章發表於 : 週一 18 7月 05 01:19:07 
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註冊時間: 週三 16 2月 05 01:25:10
文章: 500
來自: matrix
章魚大大,請教下,我本身已有一部都幾自動化既645,但又想感受下D全手動對焦既機器。 呢兩個係唔係好選擇呢?

我唔知點解但我本身對腰平有D抗拒。

有人同我講過既然已經有645,再上就應該係大底。 但自問技術好屎,估焦實在係我難能力範圍以外既事。

我既享售映相,又享受買/摸機。 唔好怪我成日向大家請教相機既問題。

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相機有一籮,靚相無幾張,唉!

I love Contax, I love people who love Contax and I love people who love Contax and use them to take great pictures.


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文章發表於 : 週一 18 7月 05 01:46:17 
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註冊時間: 週六 08 11月 03 01:36:09
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我吹水,有點歪理,不要太在意我的觀點。

我不會考慮玩大底機,主因是我冇錢,其次我冇黑房,玩不盡部機。

大底機:
影黑白,自己沖放,算最便宜玩法,煩得來又好鬼滿足,
影彩色負片,付錢給人放,唔通做 contact print 晒 4R 咩,放相幾貴。
影彩色幻燈,又冇 4x5 projector 睇,係燈箱睇大極有限,我從來唔覺得用燈箱睇幻燈片有乜好睇(包括 135, 120),要拿幻燈片去 drum scan ,scan 完打張大大相先值回玩 4x5 理由。呢度又洗一筆。

冇話要技術先配得部機,有錢應該儘快買部機來練技術。
但 running cost 係要自己負擔得起先好去上。有錢買機但冇錢沖放菲林,咁先對不住部機。

你本身有 645 ,加多套 67 ,的確有點重覆。若你不會常常放極限大相,我覺得 645 同 67 分別不會太大。講到 digital back . 645 優勢就更明顯。

買部二手 P67 + 1 鏡 試下先啦,又不會貴,放番出去也不會蝕很多。要試過先知適不適合自己。


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文章發表於 : 週一 18 7月 05 03:18:53 
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註冊時間: 週四 27 11月 03 02:15:48
文章: 3194
來自: Moon Base Alpha
Let me have a take on the matters

- First and foremost, forget about the digital back. Simply put, a digital back does not make sense in a 6X7 format. The technogy had different application adn there is a depreciation of return with size advantage. the current Digital back and future extreme high resolution models ( say like the 39MP Phase one P45 ) are all 36X48. There is a limit on the chip and sensor both for practical and technical reason. If Digital back is a concern, stay 645 and think of investing in better Lens

- If you routinely need large print, do your own post processing ( wet or digital ) and can afford the size advantage. the 6X7 ( or rather 6X8 ) is preferably a better advantage. But You got to live with the size disadvantage also. Handliing a 6X7 is not like 645. 645 is very much grown up from 35mm, but 67 is very much a slimmed down large format. Don't even think of doing handheld in most cases.

- Large Format is not about darkrooming. Its about getting the most out of the media. I use 35mm, 645 & 6X6, but beyond that I will not go for a 6X7 or 6X8 personally. They are really catered for commercial application. Any decent large format can easily adepted to take roll film back, and with the capbility of the field camera which offer far more control over any 6X7 or 6X8 SLR. It dwells on the fact that unless one are using tthose SLR for need. No reason can sway me from notgoing the large format route. Especially something like a 5X7 which allow reduced back to 4X5 or roll film back up to 617 ( without needing extension frame and thus allow true ultra wide ). Tell you what, one don't know larger format until one tried out a 8X10 ( talk about contact print or viewing )



So in the end, I think just thinking of the 6X7 as a step up from 645 is IMHO a grossly unjusted idea. If one cannot realize the fact in operational difference. One cannot appreciate how such a system is so differed from 645. Especially as the stated position of not using Waist Level ( Care to guess how big, heavy and dark such prism as was on the 6X7 or so ) ..... That aside, the Pentax 6X7 is far more suitable to 645/35mm user with preference fro Prism than anything else.

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圖檔 圖檔 圖檔


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文章發表於 : 週一 18 7月 05 08:37:42 
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註冊時間: 週三 16 2月 05 01:25:10
文章: 500
來自: matrix
FR 寫:
Let me have a take on the matters

- First and foremost, forget about the digital back. Simply put, a digital back does not make sense in a 6X7 format. The technogy had different application adn there is a depreciation of return with size advantage. the current Digital back and future extreme high resolution models ( say like the 39MP Phase one P45 ) are all 36X48. There is a limit on the chip and sensor both for practical and technical reason. If Digital back is a concern, stay 645 and think of investing in better Lens

- If you routinely need large print, do your own post processing ( wet or digital ) and can afford the size advantage. the 6X7 ( or rather 6X8 ) is preferably a better advantage. But You got to live with the size disadvantage also. Handliing a 6X7 is not like 645. 645 is very much grown up from 35mm, but 67 is very much a slimmed down large format. Don't even think of doing handheld in most cases.

- Large Format is not about darkrooming. Its about getting the most out of the media. I use 35mm, 645 & 6X6, but beyond that I will not go for a 6X7 or 6X8 personally. They are really catered for commercial application. Any decent large format can easily adepted to take roll film back, and with the capbility of the field camera which offer far more control over any 6X7 or 6X8 SLR. It dwells on the fact that unless one are using tthose SLR for need. No reason can sway me from notgoing the large format route. Especially something like a 5X7 which allow reduced back to 4X5 or roll film back up to 617 ( without needing extension frame and thus allow true ultra wide ). Tell you what, one don't know larger format until one tried out a 8X10 ( talk about contact print or viewing )

So in the end, I think just thinking of the 6X7 as a step up from 645 is IMHO a grossly unjusted idea. If one cannot realize the fact in operational difference. One cannot appreciate how such a system is so differed from 645. Especially as the stated position of not using Waist Level ( Care to guess how big, heavy and dark such prism as was on the 6X7 or so ) ..... That aside, the Pentax 6X7 is far more suitable to 645/35mm user with preference fro Prism than anything else.


FR,

the first part about large format makes sense to me, that's why i do not consider trying it out and asked about 6x7 instead, what u referred to as a trimmed down large format - since i am very much interested in seeing frame size larger than 645.

i asked a bit about the horseman earlier on because it is of a larger frame size and i like panorama. but this guess work about focusing beats me. So, it's a "forget it".

no, i don't do my own printing and i do not intend to, not at this stage anyway.

yes, shopping and playing with / getting to know different cameras is an integral part of my interest in photography.

i like pentax because i am very used to composing through a prism as opposed to a waist level finder, but the build in bellow focusing (more than the prospect about the use of a digital back) of the rz interests me.

about your latter part, u think it's a good idea to try out the pentax if i want to look at something bigger than 645 ? is that what u mean ?

_________________
相機有一籮,靚相無幾張,唉!

I love Contax, I love people who love Contax and I love people who love Contax and use them to take great pictures.


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文章發表於 : 週一 18 7月 05 13:13:18 
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註冊時間: 週日 14 12月 03 21:11:05
文章: 1758
tron 寫:
章魚大大,請教下,我本身已有一部都幾自動化既645,但又想感受下D全手動對焦既機器。 呢兩個係唔係好選擇呢?

我唔知點解但我本身對腰平有D抗拒。

有人同我講過既然已經有645,再上就應該係大底。 但自問技術好屎,估焦實在係我難能力範圍以外既事。

我既享售映相,又享受買/摸機。 唔好怪我成日向大家請教相機既問題。


m.......... :roll: if you buy RZ 67 is ok.....
But I'll not use the 6x7 film back !!! :lol:
I'll use 135/ x-pan type Film back
& 6x6 film back !!!! :wink:

If I have 135/ 645 ~~~~
Next one I'll buy 6X6, or X-pan/612/617 !!!

Other type of size look more fun then just bigger size !!! ^^


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文章發表於 : 週一 18 7月 05 14:48:59 
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註冊時間: 週三 16 2月 05 01:25:10
文章: 500
來自: matrix
Kit,

I have the XPAN. You're rigtremely interesting. but having the liberty to cut out whatever u want is more fun.

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相機有一籮,靚相無幾張,唉!

I love Contax, I love people who love Contax and I love people who love Contax and use them to take great pictures.


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文章發表於 : 週一 18 7月 05 15:29:01 
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註冊時間: 週四 27 11月 03 02:15:48
文章: 3194
來自: Moon Base Alpha
I think tron touch on one key question on the bigger format. I mean, most photographer today start up with digital or 35mm and expect to work that way. Unknowingly to them is the fact that as size grows, its simply not praktical to utilize the same operational ergonomics for bigger format.

The Pentax 67 and to a lesser extent, the RB/RZ67 ( in fact its a 6X8 ) and the Fuji GX680 series represent the limit of using it that way. A prism can be fitted and sure handheld can be done. But essentially its more a secondary measure than nominal use. Coupled that with the famous mirror slap, and its quite clear that it demands a Tripod.

While a tripod is used, then there open other m,eans to composing , focusing and control. So its natural for camera like 4X5 or Horseman 612 PRO to use the trial and true Ground glass focusing. One had to realize that at this large format. Light is scarce to come by and DOF is minimal. The use of Ground glass essentially solve the problem by directly focusing , composing and checking DOF on the actual image that are to be imaged onto the film. I think people got to accept that.

So getting to a bigger format is not just about getting a bigger film plate. but whether you can accept and willing to work in the fashion demanded. Every SLR that is larger than 6X6 is pretty big, and the 6x6 is only small enough because they tend to stay within a limited VF mag ratio and coverage. My personbal thought on the matter is if Direct Prism reflex viewing and focusing is needed or simply you cannot live without it, and you are unwilling to live with a heavy bulky tripod. Then 6X6 is a praktical limit to the format. You can use 67 handheld 35mm SLR style, but its going borderline on the limit of prakticality. So the answer is NO ... i do not recommend any 67 for the said requirment. It do not make sense enough for the need and application in this said case. What I am saying id if and only if you must get to a larger format, then the P67 is the better compromise.

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圖檔 圖檔 圖檔


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文章發表於 : 週二 19 7月 05 05:41:27 
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註冊時間: 週三 16 2月 05 01:25:10
文章: 500
來自: matrix
FR,

Thanks. But I don't hate using a tripod ? More often than not, I rest my camera on a tripod and take my time enjoying the whole process.

I do not normally blow pictures up. Instead, I look at films (slides of course) using a lupe. I don't have a projector and so, to me, the bigger the frame size, the greater the enjoyment showing the details.

Just my two cents.

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相機有一籮,靚相無幾張,唉!

I love Contax, I love people who love Contax and I love people who love Contax and use them to take great pictures.


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文章發表於 : 週二 19 7月 05 11:45:47 
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註冊時間: 週六 08 11月 03 01:36:09
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用 lupe 係睇不到 details,包括拍攝失誤。 8) 8)


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文章發表於 : 週二 19 7月 05 12:58:51 
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註冊時間: 週三 16 2月 05 01:25:10
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來自: matrix
Projector ? Very expensive, is it not ?

Come on, please, tell me what's good, I am just new to all these.

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相機有一籮,靚相無幾張,唉!

I love Contax, I love people who love Contax and I love people who love Contax and use them to take great pictures.


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文章發表於 : 週二 19 7月 05 13:31:03 
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註冊時間: 週六 08 11月 03 01:36:09
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tron 寫:
Projector ? Very expensive, is it not ?

Come on, please, tell me what's good, I am just new to all these.


不要誤會,不是比身家,如果影正片,不用 Projector 放,不如不影正片了。就算玩 8x10 ,放係燈箱睇,有乜意義 ? 不放大睇,實覺得張相無懈可擊,連有冇少少鬆郁矇都未必看得清。未放大,張相反差實很高。

原理就同 web post 相一樣,縮圖可能好吸引你,但一睇番原 size 大圖,不論解像,反差,未必討好。呢個差異,很大部份是拍影枝術問題目。影正片,齋係燈箱,正如影黑白負片做 contact print,只可以粗略看看效果。質素 ? 失誤 ? 鬼睇到 .... ?

我的歪理:不買 projector ,就影負片為主,放大少少睇,就正路很多。


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文章發表於 : 週二 19 7月 05 13:41:47 
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章魚,

Then, which projector and what is the price range ? How to set up a projector system for viewing slides ? Do u need a big screen like the one i use for watching dvd ?

Thanks,

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相機有一籮,靚相無幾張,唉!

I love Contax, I love people who love Contax and I love people who love Contax and use them to take great pictures.


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文章發表於 : 週二 19 7月 05 13:55:10 
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註冊時間: 週六 08 11月 03 01:36:09
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tron 寫:
章魚,

Then, which projector and what is the price range ? How to set up a projector system for viewing slides ? Do u need a big screen like the one i use for watching dvd ?

Thanks,


吹咁多水,我主要想分享,轉 format ,要計得失。我計過若我上 4x5 機,用不盡,也不沒有需要,所以不會上。

67 projector
http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/gotschmann.htm


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