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文章發表於 : 週四 18 8月 11 18:33:31 
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普通版咋,唔係GT, 213k

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文章發表於 : 週四 18 8月 11 20:03:34 
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註冊時間: 週三 26 5月 04 18:33:58
文章: 3295
來自: Vesalius
Grass844 寫:
普通版咋,唔係GT, 213k


都ok喇, 1400cc gold 1.4TSI黎講算好唔錯了

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文章發表於 : 週四 18 8月 11 22:59:03 
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註冊時間: 週日 09 11月 03 03:42:29
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wah 寫:
vincenthoy28 寫:
Grass844 寫:
雖然落左訂, 但今晚才正式試車, 感覺幾好, 反應比想像中快, 坐足四人上大斜都都唔覺"立", supercharger + turbo 在低轉時輸出唔錯, 但坐落司機位, 眼見面板呔盤加車門成佰幾二佰粒制, 渣開MINI冇乜電子野, 呢方面要慢慢適應

You bought GT instead of GTI...

I am also interested on how is perform...Anyway interference problem when the changeover happened between supercharge and turbo?!


I guess no need special mechanism for change over as by theory supercharge works better at low rpm and then gradually pick up with turbo at higher rpm? (assume that the boosting effect to be linear.......)

arr....I am not 100% sure but as I remember, they have a valve in between supercharge and turbo.

Under low rpm, the Engine will be boosted by supercharge fully. Therefore, the valve is semi open to let both supercharge and turbo operated in mid rpm range. At high rpm, the valve will make the turbo responsible for the boost. In principle, this is almost not possible to allow both turbo and supercharge operate fully at same time due to different pressure zone issue.....

Therefore, I just wonder if such change-over approach can work smoothly... :wink:

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Damn, my Calon Segur heart fall in love with Haut Brion


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文章發表於 : 週四 18 8月 11 23:33:57 
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註冊時間: 週六 08 11月 03 07:56:21
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vincenthoy28 寫:
arr....I am not 100% sure but as I remember, they have a valve in between supercharge and turbo.

Under low rpm, the Engine will be boosted by supercharge fully. Therefore, the valve is semi open to let both supercharge and turbo operated in mid rpm range. At high rpm, the valve will make the turbo responsible for the boost. In principle, this is almost not possible to allow both turbo and supercharge operate fully at same time due to different pressure zone issue.....

Therefore, I just wonder if such change-over approach can work smoothly... :wink:


Just a quick search on wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercharger
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twincharger
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Vo ... I_90-133kW

It seems that Volkswagen had employed a electric clutch instead of using valves (as for Lancia Delta S4) for the switch-over control......

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文章發表於 : 週五 19 8月 11 11:42:36 
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註冊時間: 週二 14 12月 04 14:51:27
文章: 1467
畢特 寫:
家陣新車如果行twin turbo, 其實好多都已經好順, 一開波千幾轉已經有最大扭力輸出, supercharge/turbo轉換應該都順, 應該唔會話好突兀, 同埋一開車已經行緊supercharge, 起步/反應/上斜之類一定快, 如果唔係點會做到1400cc都可以0-100 8.0s完成(比著舊式NA引擎個D, 無10-12秒都唔得)

新GOLF GT 連稅243000, 其實係抵買


我架twin turbo好唔順wor


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文章發表於 : 週五 19 8月 11 12:18:23 
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註冊時間: 週三 26 5月 04 18:33:58
文章: 3295
來自: Vesalius
kin 寫:
畢特 寫:
家陣新車如果行twin turbo, 其實好多都已經好順, 一開波千幾轉已經有最大扭力輸出, supercharge/turbo轉換應該都順, 應該唔會話好突兀, 同埋一開車已經行緊supercharge, 起步/反應/上斜之類一定快, 如果唔係點會做到1400cc都可以0-100 8.0s完成(比著舊式NA引擎個D, 無10-12秒都唔得)

新GOLF GT 連稅243000, 其實係抵買


我架twin turbo好唔順wor


kin哥......咁一係考慮下將原本套twin turbo引擎吊起, 訂/搵副新既twin turbo engine裝入去 :twisted:

_________________
N機唔係臘鴨 N鏡唔係垃圾
家陣係人玩機 唔係機玩番人


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文章發表於 : 週五 19 8月 11 13:21:43 
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註冊時間: 週日 09 11月 03 03:42:29
文章: 12296
wah 寫:
vincenthoy28 寫:
arr....I am not 100% sure but as I remember, they have a valve in between supercharge and turbo.

Under low rpm, the Engine will be boosted by supercharge fully. Therefore, the valve is semi open to let both supercharge and turbo operated in mid rpm range. At high rpm, the valve will make the turbo responsible for the boost. In principle, this is almost not possible to allow both turbo and supercharge operate fully at same time due to different pressure zone issue.....

Therefore, I just wonder if such change-over approach can work smoothly... :wink:


Just a quick search on wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercharger
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twincharger
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Vo ... I_90-133kW

It seems that Volkswagen had employed a electric clutch instead of using valves (as for Lancia Delta S4) for the switch-over control......

arrr.....still I am not quite sure.....

I "guess" the electric clutch is trying to dis-link the mechanical power between supercharge and engine to avoid power wastage in high rpm (i.e. additional mechanical lost).

However, from air-flow point of view and since a high gas-pressure will be generated by Turbo at high rpm, a valve is still need to avoid those pressure goes into supercharge. The supercharge is a turbi and if a high pressure reversely go back to supercharge will either:
- those back pressure will make the turbi spin and create unnecessary pressure or mechanical loss
- supercharge damage by back pressure

_________________
事務局長

Damn, my Calon Segur heart fall in love with Haut Brion


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文章發表於 : 週五 19 8月 11 15:13:31 
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註冊時間: 週二 14 12月 04 14:51:27
文章: 1467
畢特 寫:
kin 寫:
畢特 寫:
家陣新車如果行twin turbo, 其實好多都已經好順, 一開波千幾轉已經有最大扭力輸出, supercharge/turbo轉換應該都順, 應該唔會話好突兀, 同埋一開車已經行緊supercharge, 起步/反應/上斜之類一定快, 如果唔係點會做到1400cc都可以0-100 8.0s完成(比著舊式NA引擎個D, 無10-12秒都唔得)

新GOLF GT 連稅243000, 其實係抵買


我架twin turbo好唔順wor


kin哥......咁一係考慮下將原本套twin turbo引擎吊起, 訂/搵副新既twin turbo engine裝入去 :twisted:


唔順既意思係,三四千轉時turbo果d突而奇來既動力 :twisted:


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文章發表於 : 週五 19 8月 11 19:12:50 
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註冊時間: 週三 26 5月 04 18:33:58
文章: 3295
來自: Vesalius
kin 寫:
畢特 寫:
kin 寫:
畢特 寫:
家陣新車如果行twin turbo, 其實好多都已經好順, 一開波千幾轉已經有最大扭力輸出, supercharge/turbo轉換應該都順, 應該唔會話好突兀, 同埋一開車已經行緊supercharge, 起步/反應/上斜之類一定快, 如果唔係點會做到1400cc都可以0-100 8.0s完成(比著舊式NA引擎個D, 無10-12秒都唔得)

新GOLF GT 連稅243000, 其實係抵買


我架twin turbo好唔順wor


kin哥......咁一係考慮下將原本套twin turbo引擎吊起, 訂/搵副新既twin turbo engine裝入去 :twisted:


唔順既意思係,三四千轉時turbo果d突而奇來既動力 :twisted:


:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

_________________
N機唔係臘鴨 N鏡唔係垃圾
家陣係人玩機 唔係機玩番人


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文章發表於 : 週五 19 8月 11 19:25:49 
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註冊時間: 週三 26 5月 04 18:33:58
文章: 3295
來自: Vesalius
vincenthoy28 寫:
wah 寫:
vincenthoy28 寫:
arr....I am not 100% sure but as I remember, they have a valve in between supercharge and turbo.

Under low rpm, the Engine will be boosted by supercharge fully. Therefore, the valve is semi open to let both supercharge and turbo operated in mid rpm range. At high rpm, the valve will make the turbo responsible for the boost. In principle, this is almost not possible to allow both turbo and supercharge operate fully at same time due to different pressure zone issue.....

Therefore, I just wonder if such change-over approach can work smoothly... :wink:


Just a quick search on wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercharger
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twincharger
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Vo ... I_90-133kW

It seems that Volkswagen had employed a electric clutch instead of using valves (as for Lancia Delta S4) for the switch-over control......

arrr.....still I am not quite sure.....

I "guess" the electric clutch is trying to dis-link the mechanical power between supercharge and engine to avoid power wastage in high rpm (i.e. additional mechanical lost).

However, from air-flow point of view and since a high gas-pressure will be generated by Turbo at high rpm, a valve is still need to avoid those pressure goes into supercharge. The supercharge is a turbi and if a high pressure reversely go back to supercharge will either:
- those back pressure will make the turbi spin and create unnecessary pressure or mechanical loss
- supercharge damage by back pressure


唔知真唔真既解說
http://hi.baidu.com/bmwblog/blog/item/b ... c7a54.html :roll:

_________________
N機唔係臘鴨 N鏡唔係垃圾
家陣係人玩機 唔係機玩番人


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文章發表於 : 週五 19 8月 11 19:41:06 
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註冊時間: 週日 09 11月 03 03:42:29
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圖檔

Yes, this is the pic that I mentioned...

There is a control valve to passby the supercharge..Since there is a lot of coordination between electric clutch and control valve...Not sure if it will make the output power not stable...

_________________
事務局長

Damn, my Calon Segur heart fall in love with Haut Brion


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文章發表於 : 週五 19 8月 11 20:41:51 
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註冊時間: 週六 08 11月 03 07:56:21
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vincenthoy28 寫:
圖檔

Yes, this is the pic that I mentioned...

There is a control valve to passby the supercharge..Since there is a lot of coordination between electric clutch and control valve...Not sure if it will make the output power not stable...


I guess the working mechanism between the control valve and the electromagnetic clutch may not be as complicated as we had been thinking.........possibly it would just operate simultaneously with the cluth so as to provide a direct inlet of fresh air without going through the "fans" of the supercharger.

Actually the writer had provided a description on the working logic:

" 具体来说,TSI的涡轮是根据以下逻辑进行动作的:
1.在低转速时,由于废气涡轮的迟滞效应,大部分的增压压力都由机械增压器产生。发动机低转响应性更好,废气涡轮增压器的启动更加平顺。
2.当转速达到1500rpm时,两个增压器同时产生作用,总增压值达到2.5bar。随着转速提高,废气涡轮增压器使发动机获得更大的动力,而机械增压器由于摩擦的增大,增压效果逐渐降低。
3.当转速超过3500rpm时,发动机管理系统控制电磁离合器分离,使得机械增压器退出工作,减少摩擦损耗。此时,废气涡轮增压器完全提供发动机的增压压力。"

The control of the valve should be critical in the old design of Lancia, but for Volkswagen one I think the timing and rpm level setting of the electromagnetic clutch should play the most important role......

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Wah
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www.flickr.com/dicksonlau


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文章發表於 : 週五 19 8月 11 20:59:38 
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註冊時間: 週三 01 12月 04 02:27:30
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我都唔知咁多野, 總知比mini 慳油唔少(10L / 100KM), 又好力好多好多就得喇, 咩咩BAR 咩咩BRA.....我唔識架 :evil:

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My Album - http://www.fotop.net/grasscho
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文章發表於 : 週五 19 8月 11 22:49:26 
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註冊時間: 週二 14 12月 04 14:51:27
文章: 1467
Grass844 寫:
我都唔知咁多野, 總知比mini 慳油唔少(10L / 100KM), 又好力好多好多就得喇, 咩咩BAR 咩咩BRA.....我唔識架 :evil:


慳油過我好多 :shock:


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文章發表於 : 週六 20 8月 11 00:07:45 
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註冊時間: 週三 01 12月 04 02:27:30
文章: 1457
kin 寫:
Grass844 寫:
我都唔知咁多野, 總知比mini 慳油唔少(10L / 100KM), 又好力好多好多就得喇, 咩咩BAR 咩咩BRA.....我唔識架 :evil:


慳油過我好多 :shock:


我架1275CC 既A/T MINI, 夏天加冷氣, 點踩都係10L/100KM, 就住就任點慳都要9L/100KM, 但上大斜要熄冷氣才夠力, 例如入城門隊道前既大斜路, 尾段只能五六十上, 如油缸得番四五升油時, 冇開冷氣下, 可七八十上

_________________
朱門酒肉臭 , 路有凍死骨

My Album - http://www.fotop.net/grasscho
圖檔


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