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 文章主題 : Digital or Film
文章發表於 : 週日 23 9月 07 23:20:23 
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註冊時間: 週二 17 10月 06 19:50:30
文章: 586
小弟想投入ZM行列 :wink:
但選Digital 還是 Film 的 body, 好頭痛,
工作忙, 用Film, 真的一個月才能拍一筒, 有時沖後, 都忘記在那裡拍,
用Digital, M8 好像貴得頗為不捨得...

各大大請盡量給小弟意見, 尤其關於以下的問題...

1. Digital or Film?
2. Zeiss Ikon是否真的可靠? 好像都有很多維修問題!
3. Leica body除卻現有售賣的, 有哪款舊型號可建議購入使用?
4. M3及M6一般現價(二手)多少?
5. 如選Digital, Epson R-D1s及M8外, 有其他選擇嗎?
6. Epson R-D1s質素如何?可考慮嗎?

多謝大家...

_________________
磚者...慢慢砌也
菜者...則須慢慢用心"種"之


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 文章主題 : Re: Digital or Film
文章發表於 : 週日 23 9月 07 23:44:50 
理事
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註冊時間: 週六 08 11月 03 07:56:21
文章: 5762
Bricks 寫:
小弟想投入ZM行列 :wink:
但選Digital 還是 Film 的 body, 好頭痛,
工作忙, 用Film, 真的一個月才能拍一筒, 有時沖後, 都忘記在那裡拍,
用Digital, M8 好像貴得頗為不捨得...

各大大請盡量給小弟意見, 尤其關於以下的問題...

1. Digital or Film?
2. Zeiss Ikon是否真的可靠? 好像都有很多維修問題!
3. Leica body除卻現有售賣的, 有哪款舊型號可建議購入使用?
4. M3及M6一般現價(二手)多少?
5. 如選Digital, Epson R-D1s及M8外, 有其他選擇嗎?
6. Epson R-D1s質素如何?可考慮嗎?

多謝大家...


1. Film. 因為至今仍然未有 Full Frame Digital RF, 而很多RF 鏡頭 (甚至標榜 Digital ready 的 ZM 鏡) 個人覺得仍未能與 CCD / CMOS 配合好 (主要是 Vignetting 的問題)

2. 很難一概而論, 小弟的 Zeiss Ikon 曾經因為 Jam shutter 而寄返日本兩個月, 自此一直亦沒有大問題. 個人覺得使用電子產品就要接受會有 component failure 既問題, 用得 mechanical 產品就預o左一段時間後要做 re-calibration

3. 個人喜好為 M4 或 M6 classic

5. 有! (做Photo CD) :lol:

6. 質素再好......除非閣下只用 RF 影人像.........不能 100% 滿足使用 RF wide angle 的優勢感覺十分不爽.........

_________________
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Wah
理事 - Board of Members
www.flickr.com/dicksonlau


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 文章主題 :
文章發表於 : 週一 24 9月 07 01:31:36 
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註冊時間: 週四 27 11月 03 02:15:48
文章: 3194
來自: Moon Base Alpha
My take on the matter ....


1. Pure personal choice and preference, do note that one had to be very honest with oneself to really made a judgment :!:

2. Well, some had problem, but overall its no better or worse than any other RF of similars

3. Again pretty much personal preference , depending on which focal length is being used most. For that matter, the Konica Hexar RF is IMHO a far better platform

4. No Idea at all

5. No other choice, Its either RD-1/RD-1s or the M8, but then I had to say so long if one do not want to or unwilling to invest time in dealing with the IR issue with the M8 and shoot RAW and process properly ( all of them ) .. you might as well stay with film

6. Actual field experience suggest that its better than what most seems to fathom

On the other hand I do not agree with WAH. M8 ( 1.3X crop ) & RD-1/RD-1s ( 1.5X ) is just a design set criteria. Just as many lens used on medium format or large format do not actually utilize its design goal ( say the 38 Biogon on the Hasselblad is designed to cover 80X80 but the 120 frame is just 56X56 ). I take it that one just had to factor them as their own right in the format they choose. Beside how wide is wide enough. On RF setup one can buy right down to 12mm today and its wide enough ( more than wide enough in fact ).

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文章發表於 : 週一 24 9月 07 16:02:32 
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註冊時間: 週四 27 11月 03 02:15:48
文章: 3194
來自: Moon Base Alpha
Very good point from Jason, the single most demanding fact in the whole photo making process nowadays had shift from the Capturing platform ( they are all quality today ) to the serious post capture processing.

Which unfortunately is overlook by so too many of our fellow forum members here or rather most had been cultured to believe they should or need not be involved ( too much of a conveniences as decades of standardized film D&P service mad people lazy or even ignorant on this )

On the matter of RF. I had to say many are still too cherished by that so call Leica Philosophy. What I see is pure nostalgia and self induced romance only !! Leica was introduced way back so one can had a compact portable shooting platform and the image quality is a decent compromise. And its in fact not quite going to made it to go fro a system just for the system or just for a few lens own sake. One must ask oneself if one is actually using the setup and liking it and actually making good photos at all. If the answer is NO or of any doubt. May be the system is not for the one then !!

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 文章主題 :
文章發表於 : 週二 25 9月 07 06:44:12 
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註冊時間: 週二 17 10月 06 19:50:30
文章: 586
Thanks for the reply from all brother :)

_________________
磚者...慢慢砌也
菜者...則須慢慢用心"種"之


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 文章主題 : Re: Digital or Film
文章發表於 : 週二 25 9月 07 07:54:25 
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註冊時間: 週二 17 10月 06 19:50:30
文章: 586
wah 寫:
Bricks 寫:
小弟想投入ZM行列 :wink:
但選Digital 還是 Film 的 body, 好頭痛,
工作忙, 用Film, 真的一個月才能拍一筒, 有時沖後, 都忘記在那裡拍,
用Digital, M8 好像貴得頗為不捨得...

各大大請盡量給小弟意見, 尤其關於以下的問題...

1. Digital or Film?
2. Zeiss Ikon是否真的可靠? 好像都有很多維修問題!
3. Leica body除卻現有售賣的, 有哪款舊型號可建議購入使用?
4. M3及M6一般現價(二手)多少?
5. 如選Digital, Epson R-D1s及M8外, 有其他選擇嗎?
6. Epson R-D1s質素如何?可考慮嗎?

多謝大家...


1. Film. 因為至今仍然未有 Full Frame Digital RF, 而很多RF 鏡頭 (甚至標榜 Digital ready 的 ZM 鏡) 個人覺得仍未能與 CCD / CMOS 配合好 (主要是 Vignetting 的問題)

2. 很難一概而論, 小弟的 Zeiss Ikon 曾經因為 Jam shutter 而寄返日本兩個月, 自此一直亦沒有大問題. 個人覺得使用電子產品就要接受會有 component failure 既問題, 用得 mechanical 產品就預o左一段時間後要做 re-calibration

3. 個人喜好為 M4 或 M6 classic

5. 有! (做Photo CD) :lol:

6. 質素再好......除非閣下只用 RF 影人像.........不能 100% 滿足使用 RF wide angle 的優勢感覺十分不爽.........


為何喜好M4, 請問優點何在?
M6 Classic 又如何, 為何不選 M6TTL, 請問大大認為分別在那裡?

_________________
磚者...慢慢砌也
菜者...則須慢慢用心"種"之


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 文章主題 :
文章發表於 : 週二 25 9月 07 07:57:10 
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註冊時間: 週二 17 10月 06 19:50:30
文章: 586
jason.lau 寫:
My view is:

3) MP is the current model. I think it is still the best among all choices with reasonable price range. My second choice would be M4, then M3. But M6 actually is very cheap, comparing to M7, MP. And it has a meter, which will be useful.



Why you choose M4? Why did you prefer M4 rather than M3? Can you tell me the reason?

_________________
磚者...慢慢砌也
菜者...則須慢慢用心"種"之


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 文章主題 :
文章發表於 : 週二 25 9月 07 08:05:17 
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註冊時間: 週二 17 10月 06 19:50:30
文章: 586
FR 寫:
My take on the matter ....

3. Again pretty much personal preference , depending on which focal length is being used most. For that matter, the Konica Hexar RF is IMHO a far better platform



Thanks for your detail opinions
Konica Hexar RF is also one of my choice. What advantages you think it have? Can you give me some informations or ideas? I always use focal length of 35, 50, sometimes 75mm.
Thank you.

_________________
磚者...慢慢砌也
菜者...則須慢慢用心"種"之


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 文章主題 :
文章發表於 : 週二 25 9月 07 16:04:58 
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註冊時間: 週四 27 11月 03 02:15:48
文章: 3194
來自: Moon Base Alpha
Bricks 寫:
...
Konica Hexar RF is also one of my choice. What advantages you think it have? Can you give me some informations or ideas? I always use focal length of 35, 50, sometimes 75mm.
Thank you.


For a start, the Konica Hexar , had a far more reliable and stable shutter. And the Shutter range of speed is far wider. Then there's the metering which Leica M is but kind of primitive. Though the Hexar is not that advanced either, but in general are still more consistent than Leica's own. Finally there is the motor drive build in.

In use the most important aspect of a RF setup is the framing / Viewing / focusing via that RF setup. The other part of the camera is in real world use not different than a SLR. By that, the Hexar is no better nor worse than Leica's own. With a difference.

Considering what a 2nd hand Leica is selling and what a Hexar RF is selling. One can hardly disagree with a Hexar RF.

IMHO many of Cosina's Bessa range are just as good for a tool.

_________________
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 文章主題 : Re: Digital or Film
文章發表於 : 週二 25 9月 07 23:57:37 
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註冊時間: 週六 08 11月 03 07:56:21
文章: 5762
Bricks 寫:
為何喜好M4, 請問優點何在?
M6 Classic 又如何, 為何不選 M6TTL, 請問大大認為分別在那裡?


Again just my personal comment.......

M4: The viewfinder of M4 is brighter than M2 / M3, with quick film load (actually still not very quick.....), the craftmanship of M4 still retain the high standard of vintage M2 / M3 (for which all later models cannot achieve......)

M6 Classic: Personally I prefer the outlook of the M6 classic than M6 TTL (with its taller body and large-size shutter knob....)

If you decided to go for Zeiss Ikon, probably the only reason is for its viewfinder! Remember that the rangefinder mechanism is always the most expensive part in a RF camera, probably the main reason for the higher price of Zeiss Ikon. The effective base length of Zeiss Ikon (0.74x) is longer than Leica with 0.72x view, while still lower than the 0.85x or the 0.91x of M3. So I am quite not agree that Zeiss Ikon is just a "calibrated" Bessas, at least the Bessas do not have the features like parallex correction, auto frameline selection etc......

The viewfinder of Zeiss Ikon is the brightest and largest that I ever tried for all kinds of RF cameras including Leica. The high eye point design is especially good for eyeglasses users, and I can easily see the 28mm frameline from a Zeiss Ikon. Yet because of the high eye point deisgn you will need to keep your eye not to deviate too much from the center position or else the rangefinder patch would easily get disappeared......

Zeiss Ikon is said to have a different shutter design for a more quiet shutter than the Bessas...........yet I have no way to prove but you can see the first curtain on Zeiss Ikon is having a different metering pattern comparing with the Bessas

The viewfinder mechanism of Zeiss Ikon is actually quite similar to Leica M3 (which is different from current Leica M), so the parallex correction mechanism design is different as well. On Leica, both the frameline and the rangefinder patch would be moved for parallex correction, while on Zeiss Ikon only the frame lines would be moved for the correction.

Again, as I had always said, the best combo (if one can afford) for RF is always any mechanical Leica M plus a Zeiss Ikon RF.........if budget is not a concern! :twisted:

(Assume a 2nd hand M6 classic + new Zeiss Ikon to be $12000 + $8500 something..........)

_________________
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Wah
理事 - Board of Members
www.flickr.com/dicksonlau


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 文章主題 :
文章發表於 : 週三 26 9月 07 00:34:31 
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註冊時間: 週三 04 1月 06 22:55:14
文章: 3990
想問問比較差的Leica係咪Leica CL?
Minolta CL比Leica CL好,係咪真?
Leica M6 TTL係咪都係Fully Mechanical除了測光要用電外?
謝謝

最後Konica Hexar係咪唔係真正的M Mount,好多的舊鏡唔可以自動出Frameline?


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 文章主題 :
文章發表於 : 週三 26 9月 07 23:49:32 
會計
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註冊時間: 週日 09 11月 03 00:26:48
文章: 6252
來自: Hong Kong
My user experience of The BEST:

Built quality: definitely the Leica M

Viewfinder: ZI

價格實用比: Cosina Bessar

Afterall, all above RF are good RF.

_________________
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* * * * * *
鯨魚愛Zeiss
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文章發表於 : 週四 27 9月 07 13:52:06 
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註冊時間: 週日 28 11月 04 00:22:00
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引言回覆:
Leica M6 TTL係咪都係Fully Mechanical除了測光要用電外?


Yes, M6 TTL can still operate without meter if run out of battery BUT it can't trigger flash.
M6 Classic (non TTL) can trigger flash without battery.


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文章發表於 : 週六 29 9月 07 23:22:37 
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taihunghk 寫:
引言回覆:
Leica M6 TTL係咪都係Fully Mechanical除了測光要用電外?


Yes, M6 TTL can still operate without meter if run out of battery BUT it can't trigger flash.
M6 Classic (non TTL) can trigger flash without battery.


Thanks!


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