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文章發表於 : 週六 19 11月 05 00:27:41 
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註冊時間: 週六 08 1月 05 22:54:51
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來自: Hong Kong
just share what I have learnt over years ... maybe more professional people like brother wah, brother FR can correct me if I am wrong?

Hologon is for superwide, it is based on a very curved front lens element to capture the very wide angle of field. the design philosophy is to produce a superwide lens with second to zero distortion, so a symmetrical design is adopted. however, coz of the very curved front lens, light loss at corner is often serious especially if aperature is wide open. that's why for hologon, the aperature is usually small and/or a gradation filter is supplemented. eg. Contax G H16/F8

Distagon is wide-angle lens of which the rear lens is a "distance" from the film. Hence Distagon is specially designed for SLR to allow for the mirror distance. That's why you do not find Distagon in G series. On the other hand, if this "distance" constraint is removed, then Biogon design will replace Distagon. eg. Biogon in Contax G series, the famous Biogon 38/2.8 in SWC. And you do not find Biogon in C/Y series too. Hence we can conclude that in theory, the Biogon design should be better than Distagon in terms of optical performance. B28 better than D28? B21 better than D21?

Normally Distagon has large aperture while the front lens surface of is not curved. eg. D25/2.8, D28/2.0, D35/1.4. It adopts a non-symmetrical design which means more distortion. To reduce the distortion, more lens elements is required. More lens elements mean more lens-air interfaces so that more internal flares will be produced. Hence if a Distagon is pointing directly at strong light, the performance would be dropped significantly. eg. D21/2.8. The T* coating can reduce such internal flares but not completely.

Planar is similiar to Distagon. Planar has the meaning of "bright". They are high aperature standard to mid-range lens. eg. P50/1.4, P45/2, P85/1.4, P135/2.0 and the design philosophy focussed on the high apertures and adopts non-symmetrical design. However unlike Distagon wide-angles, as as the need for distortion correction is not as much a concern in standard or mid-range, less lens element is needed in Planar design and so internal flare problem is of less concern.

Tessar focusses on light weight and uses the least possible lens elements (only 4). The word Tessar means a 4-elements lens. It is a symmetrical design and so distortion is minimal. On the other hand, it does not aims at big aperture. eg. T45/2.8

Comparing to Planar, Sonnar sacrifices big apertures for light weight, less elements and lower productionn costs. They are non-symmetrical design.

Tele-Tessar is the tele-version of Tessar.
S-Planar, Makro Planar is macro lens with Planr design philosophy.
Others like Mirotar, APO-Tessar, Vario-Sonnar are self explanatory.

Hope it helps. :)

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文章發表於 : 週六 19 11月 05 00:53:52 
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註冊時間: 週日 19 6月 05 02:08:45
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Some remarks on Raimondi's notes:

1. Planar is more similar to biogon than to distagon, in the sense that they are both symmetrical in design. Also, planar means "plane" in German indicating that it is specifically optimize for flatness of image, i.e. correct spherical abberration.

2. Planar uses more elements than sonnar and tessar designs, in general. AND, it is basically a symmetric design (biogon is also a symmetrical design). Because of its symmetrical design, it requires more lens elements than sonnar and tessar for the same focal length. As there are more lens elements, there are more air-lens reflection. Internal flare is REALLY a main problem of planar design. In fact, planar design was invented earlier than sonnar design. Mass production of planar began only after the use of lens coating as an effective means of suppressing internal reflection. Before that sonnar and tessar were the most popular designs.

3. Tessar is basically a triplet design, right?

Zeiss Octopus is right. Even it is technically possible to design a 400mm planar. No body will do it. Because this design requires the use of more lens elements (Planar>sonnar>tessar). The result is an extremely heavy lens if not cost prohibitively. So, it is more common to find tele lens in sonnar and tessar designs.

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文章發表於 : 週六 19 11月 05 00:59:08 
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註冊時間: 週日 09 11月 03 03:42:29
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Raimondi 寫:
Planar is similiar to Distagon. Planar has the meaning of "bright". They are high aperature standard to mid-range lens. eg. P50/1.4, P45/2, P85/1.4, P135/2.0 and the design philosophy focussed on the high apertures and adopts non-symmetrical design. However unlike Distagon wide-angles, as as the need for distortion correction is not as much a concern in standard or mid-range, less lens element is needed in Planar design and so internal flare problem is of less concern.

Tessar focusses on light weight and uses the least possible lens elements (only 4). The word Tessar means a 4-elements lens. It is a symmetrical design and so distortion is minimal. On the other hand, it does not aims at big aperture. eg. T45/2.8

I think:
1. Original Planar is symmetrical design. However, when Dr. Paul Rudolph design this lens formula in 1896, it is discovered the contrast is too low due to internal flare & no once use this design until coating technology are available. Due to it's symmetrical design, it has good color correction, low distortion & flat image plane.

2. Biogon is also symmetrical design. The idea of this lens is come from Sonnar which if you looking at the Biogon deisgn, it use 2 set of sonnar lens element that one of the element is located in "inverse" direction. Again, as it is symmetrical design, it has good color correction, low distortion & flat image plane.

You may find the following web site to obtain more idea... :wink:
http://www.zeiss.de/C12567A8003B58B9?Open

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文章發表於 : 週六 19 11月 05 01:04:16 
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註冊時間: 週三 30 6月 04 12:24:17
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Thanks for the sharing, Raimondi. :)

I think it is true to say that Hologon & Biogon can only be used in RF. But Biogon is not necessarily better than Distagon in terms of optical performance. Remembered that we are going to have a mouthwatering Distagon for ZI. The main reason why most of the wide angle RF lenses are Biogon is the size. In general, Distagon has more lens elements than the Biogon counterpart.

Another point worth noted is that Biogon design itself does not support high-speed lenses. The fastest Biogon I know is ZM35/2 which is a bit overstretched (from EP's comment)


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文章發表於 : 週六 19 11月 05 01:15:35 
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iamderek 寫:
Another point worth noted is that Biogon design itself does not support high-speed lenses. The fastest Biogon I know is ZM35/2 which is a bit overstretched (from EP's comment)


That I agree. Original Biogon should be symmetrical but as you see that only ZM28 is "close to" such design. From my personal point of view, seem Zeiss had redesign all the lens forumla instead of following the tranditional design. The Biogon Name is more or less like gimmicks.... :lol:

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文章發表於 : 週六 19 11月 05 10:34:08 
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註冊時間: 週六 08 11月 03 01:36:09
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依家 Zeiss 鏡得個名,實質都變晒種
Biogon 不似 Biogon, Sonnar 不似 Sonnar, Tessar 不似 Tessar
你唔好話 sony 果 D 潛望鏡 DC 係 True Tessar ,打死我都唔信
Zeiss 留番個名,主要係用來促銷。


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文章發表於 : 週六 19 11月 05 11:32:52 
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註冊時間: 週五 06 8月 04 02:36:46
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來自: 那星
章魚 寫:
依家 Zeiss 鏡得個名,實質都變晒種
Biogon 不似 Biogon, Sonnar 不似 Sonnar, Tessar 不似 Tessar
你唔好話 sony 果 D 潛望鏡 DC 係 True Tessar ,打死我都唔信
Zeiss 留番個名,主要係用來促銷。


right.....sometime it may only become a "psychological effect"! :wink:

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文章發表於 : 週六 19 11月 05 15:20:33 
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註冊時間: 週四 28 4月 05 18:56:54
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THX 各大大! :D

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文章發表於 : 週六 19 11月 05 20:43:21 
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註冊時間: 週六 08 1月 05 22:54:51
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Yes, i think with so much modification since the original invention, now names like biogon, distagon etc. are more like series name than have anything to do with the actual formula design.

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Contax : RTS, RTSII(50Y), RTSIII, Aria D, Aria(70Y), N1, ND, T3D(70Y), G2D
Nikon : FM3A, FM3AB
Leica : M9, X1
Fuji : X100
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文章發表於 : 週一 21 11月 05 15:23:22 
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註冊時間: 週四 28 4月 05 18:56:54
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不過話時話....如果都係135 FILM...咁你估D21定B21 靚丫嗱?

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文章發表於 : 週一 21 11月 05 16:17:06 
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註冊時間: 週五 28 11月 03 23:54:34
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joe 寫:
不過話時話....如果都係135 FILM...咁你估D21定B21 靚丫嗱?

Vote for B!

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文章發表於 : 週一 21 11月 05 16:26:55 
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Vote for B!


我都希望係!

但我未有過D21。。。。唔知係點!

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文章發表於 : 週五 16 12月 05 16:26:36 
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註冊時間: 週五 28 11月 03 23:54:34
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joe 寫:
引言回覆:
Vote for B!


我都希望係!

但我未有過D21。。。。唔知係點!

我地實有人有. :wink:

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文章發表於 : 週六 17 12月 05 01:09:56 
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註冊時間: 週五 06 8月 04 02:36:46
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Terry Sham 寫:
joe 寫:
引言回覆:
Vote for B!


我都希望係!

但我未有過D21。。。。唔知係點!

我地實有人有. :wink:


Really need to test try! 8)

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註冊時間: 週五 28 11月 03 23:54:34
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咁Vario-Sonnar同Vario-Tesser點分?

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